Pragmatism is essential in relations with Israel, says former ambassador

In the midst of the war between Israel and Hamas, Brazil needs to take a “pragmatic” stance so that the good relationship between the two nations is maintained, declared former Brazilian ambassador to Israel Gerson Menandro in an interview with People’s Gazette. The general, who held the position between September 2020 and January this year, was one of those responsible for the bilateral rapprochement during the government of former president Jair Bolsonaro (PL).

“It is necessary to have good political relations, otherwise our bilateral relationship will not be maintained. A country like Israel will not pass on its knowledge and technology in cyber and space to a country it does not trust. If Brazil distances itself from Israel, and gets closer to Iran and Hamas, this will naturally reflect on the quality of our relationship with the Israeli government. Not just with regard to politics, but in exchanges involving medicine, health, work, culture, space defense, cybernetics, etc. It is necessary to maintain a pragmatic relationship”, he argues.

Despite not being a career diplomat, Menandro was appointed ambassador to Israel because former president Bolsonaro wanted to strengthen ties with the country. “When I took over, the relationship between the two nations was cordial and friendly. But there was a lot to be explored and to be deepened”, explains the former ambassador.

At the time, some experts pointed out that there was a certain distance between the two countries, due to the issue involving Palestine. Bolsonaro sought to change this relationship by getting closer to the country and creating more effective alliances. According to Menandro, the cordial and diplomatic relationship between the two nations was not enough for the former president.

The bilateral relationship between the two countries closed 2022 with a record number of agreements signed in the most diverse areas. With more than 300 Israeli companies active in Brazil, the trade flow between the two nations closed the 2022 balance at another US$ 2 billion — almost double what was recorded in 2021. In the first nine months of this year, according to data collected by People’s Gazette, the exchange involving Brazil-Israel imports and exports has already exceeded US$ 1.6 billion. The numbers show a jump in the bilateral relationship and part of this comes from the exchange that has been established in recent years.

According to Menandro, the previous government sought a more neutral stance in relation to the century-old Israel-Palestine conflict. “Israel considered Brazil partial on the issue of Palestine. Which, in my opinion, was already foreseen, due to what our Constitution says. But I can say that in the Bolsonaro government this issue was handled in an exemplary way”, he points out.

He continues: “There are 18 resolutions at the United Nations (UN) that deal with the Israel-Palestine issue. [Na gestão do ex-presidente Bolsonaro] Brazil voted exemplarily: six votes in favor of Palestine, six in favor of Israel and abstained from the others. The stance was neutral and the Israeli government recognized this”, highlights Menandro.

And it is precisely for this reason that the former ambassador defends the need to maintain a “pragmatic” stance in Brazilian diplomacy, so that bilateral exchanges between the two nations can be maintained. “Palestinians have the right to have their land and have their rights, Brazil defends this and I agree with it. This two-state solution is very difficult in practice, but it is a right. No [se deve] never deny Israel’s right to have its land, nor to have the right to defend itself. And never praise a terrorist group. You have to be pragmatic”, he points out.

Check out other excerpts from the interview below, which have been edited for better understanding by the reader.

What might the situation of Brazilians be like in Gaza? Are there any chances of Egypt allowing passage?

There’s a chance, yes. I believe that when Israel launches a larger offensive, the number of casualties and side effects will increase, and then the pressure on Egypt will be immense. There are many crossings on this border on the Gaza perimeter, all of which lead to Israel and a small strip leads to Egypt. It is about 9km to 10km from the border which is located in Rafah. And Egypt controls Rafah 100%. The issue is that Egypt has been very fearful because it does not want to allow terrorists [do Hamas] infiltrate their territory.

Is passing through there safe?

Few people know, but that area of ​​Egypt is almost a demographic void. This is where the Sinai Peninsula is located, a large desert towards Cairo. And, what perhaps few people also know, is that that region still has pockets of resistance from Daesh, the Islamic State. To give you an idea, when we went to evacuate Brazilians from Gaza in 2021, we had to evacuate through Jordan, which is much safer, and not through Egypt, because the checkpoint from Rafah to Cairo is dangerous, you shouldn’t even travel there at night , for example.

Given Egypt’s understandable fear that terrorists may be disguised as refugees, how is this distinction made?

It’s difficult to do that. He [o terrorista] he will be disguised, he doesn’t wear a uniform, he is a combatant who doesn’t wear anything that could identify him, he could be anyone… It’s difficult to make that distinction. And Egypt doesn’t like Hamas. Hamas is a descendant of the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization founded in Egypt itself, it is extremely radical and preaches the destruction of the state of Israel. And the current Egyptian government is completely opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood, which was part of the previous government. That’s why [o governo egípcio] To this day, it continues to open this passage, despite several requests.

There are some reports and reports that have pointed out that Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel, which is why they were able to carry out such an attack…

Yes. Israel reached 23,000 daily permits for Palestinians from Gaza to cross the border early in the morning to work in Israel. [A maioria trabalhava] in different areas close to the border, sometimes further south, exactly where the attacks were, and at the end of the afternoon they returned to Gaza. The salary offered in Israel tends to be six to seven times higher than the average salary paid in Gaza. In addition to not having many jobs available there, this is the source of income for the Palestinians who live in that region. Now, how is Israel going to control one by one who enters there? It is difficult to control this.

They [Hamas] were doing this [esse plano de ataque] about two and a half years ago, a lot of work. He carried a disassembled weapon, ammunition, ammunition input precursors, gunpowder… They were assembled in isolated warehouses, vacant lots. And, at the same time, gathering information. They knew exactly which were the points that had no supervision, no guardhouse or security.

Do you believe there is a prospect for an end to the war?

I believe that this war will be even more cruel, more intense and lethal, especially when more countries begin to intervene.

How do you evaluate the resolution formulated by Brazil for the UN Security Council, which was later rejected?

I already worked at the UN doing negotiations like this. Having a text with minimal consensus is very difficult. There was merit, 12 votes in favor, two abstentions and one against. But in practice, it didn’t happen [devido ao veto dos Estados Unidos]. I’m not going to criticize and I’m not going to praise because I don’t know, nor does anyone know, what the behind-the-scenes work was like. I think the text was reasonable, in good terms, it covered almost everything. But I wonder if Brazil knew that the United States would not accept the non-inclusion of Israel’s right to defend itself. Brazil, for example, changed the term “cease fire” to “humanitarian pause”, this was skillful. A humanitarian cordon separates the war, Israel wanted that and still wants it, because there are its citizens there [como refém na Faixa de Gaza]. There are Israelis almost dying, what are the conditions of these hostages like? Very skillful, but to what extent have these terms been discussed [entre os demais membros]?

Do you think Brazil has handled this conflict well?

From Israel’s point of view, the Israeli government thinks that Brazil’s reaction could be less timid. This can be seen in the notes that the Israeli embassy has released. They think, for example, that they could mention Hamas. The ambassador [de Israel] thinks the language has been mild. It’s difficult, because you need to keep your distance from situations, but at that time, you can’t put things into perspective. What happened was barbaric. But a fair and balanced position must be adopted for both sides, Palestinians and Israelis. But the act itself must be condemned by everyone.

Is there a fair solution to this war?

There is no quick solution. In Israel’s view, exterminating Hamas would be the best solution. But this is not easy, since he is at the roots of Gaza, among civilians. One of the solutions, in the long term, is to invest now in the newest generations, to try to form a culture that does not encourage hatred. Another measure is a strong investment in socioeconomic packages. These young people [que vivem em Gaza] They have to have alternatives, have a job, occupy their idle time, not think about taking up arms or making easy money, making money with drugs, which finance terrorism. Now, energy, transportation, health, education, basic sanitation, social assistance, work, drinking water… Israel can provide this, but it has to “do the thinking” of the radicals. Looking ahead, this could be good for everyone. It is clear that the Palestinian does not want war. And Israel doesn’t want war, the country stops during war, 10% of Israeli GDP comes from tourism, and the sector is at a standstill now. Not to mention the tense atmosphere in the air… Furthermore, war is expensive and this can destroy a country’s economy.