Zeca Dirceu, PT leader, says he will seek dialogue even with Bolsonaro’s PL – 01/18/2023 – Politics

Federal deputy Zeca Dirceu (PR), 44, who will assume the leadership of the PT bench in the Chamber from February, says he will seek dialogue including with the PL of former president Jair Bolsonaro.

“My stance is one of great caution, care and willingness to dialogue even with those who don’t like us,” he says, in an interview with Sheet.

He also defends prudence regarding the installation of a CPI (Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry) to investigate the January 8 coup attacks.

“CPI can be an element of confusion, disaggregation, division”, says the deputy, according to whom the collegiate would only be necessary if the institutions were not acting fully in the case.

Asked about the PT’s historic performance in the opposition, including the pressure for the installation of a CPI to investigate the conduct of the Bolsonaro government in the pandemic, the son of former minister José Dirceu says that the former representative encouraged denialism and measures outside the recommendations of health authorities.

What will your performance in the PT leadership be like? Are you going to try to isolate the PL? On my part, there is a disposition, as we already did after the terrorist acts, to dialogue even with the opposition parties; as was done with the PL, which actively participated in the approval of the intervention here in public security in the Federal District.

I imagine it would be appropriate, in the first few days, perhaps in the first month, to avoid controversial topics, which could generate a lot of conflict and political dispute. Because out there, the scammers, the terrorists, the criminals, for the most part, still haven’t given up on their goals.

We cannot lose focus, get distracted here with sometimes minor controversies and soon we are seeing the highway closed again, camps being set up, the refinery being occupied or a bunch of crazy people trying to occupy the Praça dos Três Poderes again.

My stance is one of great caution, care and willingness to dialogue even with those who don’t like us.

Even with the PL? Yes.

What are these controversial issues? There are many topics that can be controversial. These customs guidelines, which involve questions of religion, for example, are highly complex and difficult to position.

And the CPI itself can be an element of confusion, of disaggregation, of division. It is still not possible to measure much, but from February 1st there will be more elements to evaluate.

The measures that are being taken by the Judiciary, the Public Ministry, by the governments themselves, the police, the federal government, they have to be taken into account when you think about creating or not a CPI.

If everything is moving forward, everyone is being identified, everyone is being punished, including the deputies who may have participated, what will be the role of the CPI?

If nothing is being done, if what is going well today in 15 days changes completely, then a new assessment will be in order. I am advising caution.

In the pandemic it was different [ocasião em que o PT defendeu a CPI]the government was not acting or was acting against.

What is the bench’s position in relation to deputies who encouraged coup acts? Tough and fair. We received complaints here about maybe 20, 30 deputies who, in theory, would have participated in some way. We filed a complaint against only four, because for them something consistent appeared, there’s a video, a photo, a testimony.

As the investigations progress, other politicians will end up appearing. If there is proof, we will send it to the Judiciary, to the Public Prosecutor’s Office, so that measures can be taken. And when you have an Ethics Board installed [na Câmara]we will also represent to the council, when we have proof.

The next Legislature will have a strong Bolsonarist base and a large PL bench [99 de 513]. Will it be more confrontational or will it be possible to maintain this unity created after the coup acts and isolate the most radical ones? It’s possible. There are themes that are of inevitable disagreement, there will be controversy, and we will manage. Nobody takes shit home, nobody accepts insults, nobody softens when it comes to winning, but our main objective cannot be to destroy the opposition, those PL figures who are characterized as more Bolsonarists. It cannot be a priority.

Priorities are to approve measures for public policies to happen again. When this kind of task arrives here in Congress, if anyone is going to oppose it, they’re going to self-isolate. It won’t even need the PT bench or the mayor [deputado Arthur Lira, do PP de Alagoas] isolate.

Do you anticipate any changes in legislation to punish parliamentarians involved in the acts scammers? If the Judiciary, the police or the Public Ministry understand that [mudanças legislativas são necessárias] in order to move forward with the identification and punishment, I think it will have full support not only from the PT bench, but from the Chamber as a whole. Now, we can’t keep inventing things either. If the Judiciary, the Public Ministry and the police do not need it, it is unnecessary, a waste of time in a country that has to take care of employment, education, health.

What mr. do you think it will be the basis of the government in February? It will be a base with a lot of focus on regional and social issues. There will be parties that will seem divided, because they will not deliver 100% of the votes, and this is a process that cannot be seen as a sin, as something unacceptable. It is natural, under the circumstances, that this [a formação da base] be done gradually.

And the government will dedicate itself a lot to establishing its relationship with the Southeast, with the governors, with the mayors, and that takes a little more time. But the public policies that will be implemented in these states and that will often serve segments that opposed us, as in the case of agribusiness, will end up changing the perception of things.

The effect that fake news had from 2018 to 2022… when you’re in government, it’s totally different. When six months, a year go by, and Lula doesn’t close any church, what about those who said he was going to close a church?

President Arthur Lira was one of Bolsonaro’s main allies. Is he part of the government today? Lira is a great ally of your words, your agreements and your commitments. He has a history here [na Câmara]. We arrived together in 2011, he always honored his word. What he had with Bolsonaro was not out of passion, it was an occasional matter, he fulfilled the role he had [que cumprir].

I hope that the fulfillment of agreements also happens with President Lula and, I hope that in Lula’s case, he also has passion, enthusiasm with what we are going to be doing.

There will be an additional component, which Bolsonaro did not have, which is the deal component. How nice, friendly and human Lula is and how arrogant, overbearing the other is and who doesn’t have the slightest bit of knowledge to share at the table.

This government promises to have a cross-cutting environmental policy, but what if this comes into conflict with agribusiness policies? I think there will only be conflicts with those few who are not even farmers, they are criminals who are there in the mining, destroying the forest. I’m from Paraná and I can talk about what I know. Agribusiness people, no matter how much they have political differences with us, no matter how unfair and exaggerated their criticisms, their offenses against President Lula, they are not criminals. They are not there destroying the rivers of Paraná, the forests.

In politics, we will have to adjust new terms of relationship so that, even though we are different, we respect each other, dialogue and build together. When I met with the Minister of Agriculture [Carlos Fávaro], one of the things he asked for —and President Lula had already asked for it back there and I did it during the campaign— is to talk to the cooperatives in Paraná. Paraná has the largest cooperative in Latin America, which is Coamo. And there is no environmental crime there. If so, it’s an exception.

I have no doubt, I hope that evidence appears that this group of illegal mining, illegal deforestation, was the one who financed the most [os ataques golpistas]. Because they are making a lot of money.

President Lula’s speeches were sometimes distorted or misunderstood [na campanha, o petista sugeriu que uma ala do agronegócio é fascista e direitista]. He also has this clarity, he knows the difference between good, positive, entrepreneurial agribusiness that helps exports from the country, which produces food, from that other part, which I don’t even consider agro, which are criminal. A minority, but with very great destructive power.

---

X-ray | Zeca Dirceu, 44 years old

Graduated in computer science from Universidade Paranaense (Unipar), he is in his fourth term. Son of former Civil House Minister José Dirceu and Clara Becker, Zeca Dirceu was twice mayor of Cruzeiro do Oeste, in Paraná.