Oil is a chance to raise social indicators in Amapá, says governor to CNN – News of Brazil

Caio Junqueira

The governor of Amapá, Clécio Luís, said in conversation with CNN in Macapá that oil exploration on the equatorial margin is an opportunity for the state to improve its economic and social indicators.

He also refutes the idea that the project could suffer the same fate as past projects that ended up not bringing development to the state.

Governor, you have defended oil exploration in the Equatorial Margin. Why?

Because it is a fundamental energy and economic matrix for the country, and we live… I will try to summarize the following situation as much as possible here. We live in a state that has the best environmental indicators in the country and perhaps in the world. However, we have the worst social and economic indicators in the country. In almost all social and economic indicators, Amapá is 27th. However, we go to environmental indicators, they are the best. Wait a minute, that’s wrong, we want to maintain these environmental indicators as the best in the country, the most preserved forest, the largest number of protected areas, but we also want our population, social indicators and economic indicators to be able to going up, we want to take advantage of this value that is our forest, that is our rivers, that is all this biodiversity that we have.

We do not enjoy it, because we live in poverty or below it. So, oil is a possibility, it cannot be the only one, we have to know that it will be transitory. But it is one of the strong possibilities for us to balance this game, to maintain these environmental indicators, but increase social and economic indicators.

Let’s assume that exploration and commercial viability are confirmed. Where would these royalties go? What do you plan?

This plan does not exist, because everything is very new, but it is clear that we are turning all our efforts, all our energy, all our political mass so that we can do things differently than many states and municipalities that surfed the oil wave and Then, when the production curve began to fall, the states began to feel it.

We want to solve immediate problems of hunger, poverty, urban issues, of the state’s 16 municipalities, but we also want to make a reservation for future times. We believe in the energy transition, so we have to set an example. In other words, if we understand oil as an economic and energy matrix that is in transition to other matrices, let’s prepare for them and take advantage of the financing it can give us to finance this transition, it is not an energy transition without oil and mining . So, this is the debate we are having here.

During my travels, I felt a certain trauma in the state among the population due to the projects that promised development and did not bring it. A classic is Serra do Navio. What to say to these people who see these projects, who promised to develop the state. What can we say to those who see the promise of development?

Two things to say. One: that these projects – I can talk about three here, Icomi, Jari, Novo Astro – are three different projects based on mining or large projects. The three are a project model called an economic enclave. These projects were all built outside of here, and they were located in the middle of Amapá. So, the first exploration model, which is doing research and then, if possible, exploring for oil, is a different model. Another: it’s not that they didn’t bring development. It’s just that, during its production phase, no other alternative was thought of.

So, everyone knew that the exploration, for example, of manganese in Serra do Navio, was for 50 years. What was the other activity financed by this economic activity that was developed in the state? None. If we produced manganese, let’s imagine the decade of 40/50/60, in the middle of the Cold War, manganese was one of the most strategic ores on the planet, we had the largest deposit at that time. In other words, there was a lot of private revenue and public revenue as well. We didn’t think, for example, what to do since there was another iron deposit next door for us to produce, which would be bicycles here, which is not something with great technology. This is what we need to do differently.

During a phase of oil production we first have to think about changing the headquarters of our research and education institutions, the academy, to create and train staff who can work in this area. Then, think about products, services, political and economic directions that can give longevity to this transitory period.

For example, we talk a lot about how oil burns, right? As fuel. It is a fossil fuel, burning, emitting CO2, etc., but a very powerful industry also derives from oil, which is petrochemicals, which does not pollute.

Almost everything we have here, that camera that is filming us, the cell phones that are filming us, our clothes, this microphone, almost everything has oil and it is an industry that, obviously, if we have a deposit nearby, we will have conditions to take advantage of or at least compete for this industry to go to Amapá.

So, we have to think. If you said “do you have a project?”, you don’t, because it’s all very new, this decision has been taking months, to really make the most of it, not use everything at once, the resources, benefits of this production and think about projects with greater longevity and thinking strategically about the energy transition.

Do you feel that this is almost a redemption for the state?

Well, I avoid these more effusive terms because it can generate discredit in something that we are very hopeful about, but, in fact, in at least the short term, 5, 10 years, it is something that can give robustness to our economy , it can generate scale in revenue and allow us to do some things that are really emergency and plan a future with more momentum, a future that is non-negotiable.

One of the things I had the most difficulty with was finding an opposing politician. In a way, he united the opponents. Why?

And truth. First, our situation is really pre-collapse always. We have the worst educational indicators, we have the worst HDIs, we have the worst indicators in all social areas, so there is a convergence. I wouldn’t say it’s unanimous, but there is a convergence towards this sad reality in Amapá. On the other hand, I say this, I don’t say it with pride, but I also don’t say it with regret, I want to say “look, this is the situation, the social situation is not good, the economic situation is not good”. On the other hand, we have a huge potential, oil is one of those potentials, we have others, but it is one of those potentials.

So, if we have a convergence that the situation is not good, and a convergence that something can take us out of this condition, even if it is progressively, I don’t see it as a redemption “ah, from the oil”, it’s not like that , but what can progressively get us out of this. But we ended up creating not unanimity, but unity, a consensus in favor of the fact that we cannot give up this economic and energy matrix.

I’m saying, then, that if it’s important for Brazil, which is a world power, which is a leader in Latin America, imagine for Amapá, which is not a leader in Brazil, which is one of the smallest states, one of the most poor, for sure. How important this is to us. That is why this consensus was generated around this need.

First, it’s good to clarify this. Wow, give us the right to research, because what we were denied was the right to research. The exploratory phase for oil, gas and mining means research. So, we need to research. A ship was here, Caio, spending R$4 million per day. He spent months here. The capsule carrying the probe was ready to first simulate an accident, did you know that?

I knew these costs.

Petrobras was required to simulate a probable accident. Very good that they demanded, commendable. What would the simulation be? Petrobras itself and its technicians managed to invent a product from corn, like popcorn, which they can simulate an accident. So what was the simulation? Go down to 2,880 meters in the water, release this product simulating oil down there as if it were a leak and do all the analysis of how it would rise, at what speed, if more or less speed, if it would rise cohesively or at in an uncoordinated way, what currents would be caught, to have an even more realistic plan for emergency care in the event of an accident. This accident never occurred. Petrobras has already dug more than 3 thousand wells. Why am I saying this? Because I needed to know, to surround myself with care.

That’s what I wanted to ask you: don’t you fear the environmental impact in your reflections?

I’m not afraid, but to not be afraid, I have to be safe. So in this simulation, Petrobras drilled more than a thousand wells in deep waters. Petrobras is perhaps the company with the greatest know-how in this type of deep water drilling, so much so that, for them, Amapá Águas Profundas is the name of the project.

There have never been any accidents, zero accidents, that is, if we take all the precautions, the type of drilling, we do a kind of header, control within this environment, this tunnel. They control pressure, remove air, remove water, so the probe can get there safely, drill with great care, and only then release it. Never had any accidents, they are experts in this.

But that’s not all, Petrobras’ high technology, hydrological studies of currents in that region. We are almost at the edge of our continental plate. There is a lot of talk about the mouth of the Amazon River, because this region is known as the basin at the mouth of the Amazon River, but these wells are 540 km from the mouth of the Amazon River, the north bar, and are 174 km from the tip of the cape Orange, where did you go.

So, there is a lot of security in the technical information that Petrobras produced, which the Brazilian geological service also has at its disposal. They are those old people, in the best sense of the word, who are from Brazilian geology, who know deeply and who dream about what could happen here. There is talk, Caio, of a second pre-salt. That’s a lot, it’s not just anything.

Now, imagine that it is the second pre-salt at a time when the pre-salt is almost reaching its peak. There will begin to be a decline in production. So, go back to that situation again. This is fundamental for Brazil. If it’s for Brazil, imagine for us here, in the far north of Brazil.

Do you want to add anything else?

I think it’s important, as I’ve been discussing this since December, it’s natural that I get excited. I am an enthusiast, first of research, then of research, having the results, then the decision of whether to produce it or not. In my view, it has to be taken on a strategic level, it cannot be taken at a table, in a committee or in a segment, it is a strategic decision that has to take into account environmental risks, potentialities, the equivalences of producing oil in the extreme north of Brazil.

Ultimately, to make a decision that is up to par with what it means to have oil and gas production in the Brazilian Amazon, in the blue Amazon, because we are talking about the Atlantic Ocean, and that it is a decision based on serious studies and research. That’s what we’re proposing to happen. I don’t want you to do it anyway, in any way.

I, as governor, also want to be sure that producing oil will be good in all aspects. I will repeat how I started my speech: we do not want to reduce our environmental indicators, this is a source of pride for us. But we want these environmental indicators to influence our social and economic indicators, because the people who live here, in the extreme north of Brazil, are above the Equator, and have the right to develop too.

Source: CNN BRAZIL

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