MST CPI may reach Boulos’ MTST, says Salles – 05/18/2023 – Politics

Federal deputy Ricardo Salles (PL-SP) told the Sheet that the CPI of the MST (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra), of which he is rapporteur, may increase its scope of action and also investigate invasions of urban properties.

Former Minister of the Environment in the Jair Bolsonaro (PL) government, Salles said that he does not rule out analyzing within the scope of the commission the performance of the MTST (Movement of Homeless Workers), whose best-known leader is federal deputy Guilherme Boulos (PSOL -SP).

Salles and Boulos articulate candidacies for the City of São Paulo in 2024.

“The MTST is the urban version of the MST. The MST in cities is called MTST. It is exactly the same. Nothing prevents us from analyzing these examples that are analogous to the MST. It is the same thing”, stated Salles.

How do you intend to act as rapporteur for the CPI?
We have a strategy that is to identify those responsible in each state for the occupations that have taken place since the beginning of the year. For this, the first step we agreed is to do the due diligence in the states. To get away from this idea that everything is centered on the person of the [dirigente do MST João Pedro] Stedile or [coordenador nacional do MST] Joao Paulo Rodrigues or the [líder da Frente Nacional de Lutas Campo e Cidades] Joseph Queen. We want to know who is there at the end, effectively organizing this.

Mr. Do you think which ministers of the Lula government could be summoned?
Ministers, for now, doesn’t make much sense, because it would be just a political gesture to somehow constrain or create political relevance. We don’t want to do that now. I combined with the [deputado Tenente Coronel] Zucco [presidente da CPI] that we first carry out the due diligence in the states and, when we have this information, call the people who have been identified.

In parallel, we are also going to call together the Incra superintendents [Instituto Nacional de Colonização e Reforma Agrária] nominees originating from the land invasion movement. We want to know if they’re going to act independently on the intrusions.

What proposals can be included in the final report?
In addition to existing proposals, such as excluding those identified as property invaders from social programs and increasing the penalty for invasion and depredation of property, including public or private property, there are other important measures for restructuring the agrarian reform program.

A more suitable format for property titling may come out of this CPI. May we take advantage of the discussion of land regularization as a whole, for topics such as invasion of conservation units, invasion of indigenous land, invasion of settlements or private properties.

Because there is a point that unites all these themes, which is the absence of land regularization, the absence of a firm decision by the public power —be it the federal, state or municipal governments— to carry out land regularization. Including urban invasions, which are the other side of the same coin of disrespect for private property.

Can the CPI increase the scope to analyze urban property invasions?
The criminal type that applies to rural invasions is the same as that applied to urban invasions. It’s the same procedures, it’s the same form of action, of gathering support, of gathering resources. The modus operandi is the same.

Can this theme be incorporated into the works of the CPI?
Yes. When we manage to establish what is the modus operandi that is being done with the invasions of the countryside, we will draw a parallel to show how this operates in the city. Therefore, the same measures that we proposed to strengthen the concept of private property, to maintain legal certainty and predictability, it [CPI] will enjoy.

In this case, the MTST…
The MTST is the urban version of the MST. The MST in cities is called MTST. It’s exactly the same.

So can the MTST become a target of the CPI?
I don’t know if target is the word, but it can be analyzed. Nothing prevents us from analyzing these examples, which are analogous to the MST, Via Campesina and the National Fight Front. It’s the same thing.

One of the leaders of the MTST is federal deputy Guilherme Boulos (PSOL), a pre-candidate for the Mayor of São Paulo, a position that Mr. also intends to compete. Can the CPI then be a tool to attack an opponent of yours?
I don’t say attack, but I think it’s legitimate to show what this group [MTST] do in cities. Brazilians want to know what is the coincidence of behavior and procedures between what is done in the countryside and the invasions of cities.

Can Boulos be called up?
I think trespassers in cities can be called out too. If Boulos wants to participate in the debate, it is legitimate, because he is a federal deputy, he can come to the committee at any time. He does not need to be summoned for this, he can participate in the debate normally.

The MST has already been the subject of at least two CPIs in Congress. They were the scene of ideological disputes and had little practical effect. Why do you think this one will be different?
There is already a lesson learned from these past CPIs and, therefore, we already start from the knowledge that they [parlamentares] got that opportunity. The more ideological discussion does not seem to us, at this moment, to be the focus. The focus is a very technical and very transparent discussion about what we will find in this area of ​​property invasion.

Even yesterday [quarta-feira] At the CPI, I had a conversation with the PT deputies so that they could also indicate people they believe could come here and give a statement on how they see this problem of agrarian reform and the way in which they claim it. We don’t want to create a one-sided report, we want to hear what the other side has to say.

The CPI has a majority of parliamentarians linked to the ruralist agenda…
It is a CPI requested by the ruralists, requested by the FPA [Frente Parlamentar da Agropecuária]. It is obvious that we must have a majority. It is a CPI requested by us, related to a problem that affects us. So it is natural that it is controlled or at least has a majority of FPA deputies.

Agribusiness is still a sector that has a lot of resistance to President Lula. Do you think the CPI will be against the government?
During the campaign, Lula promised to appease the country and pacify Brazil. What we have been watching since January 1st is the government itself, and especially the figure of President Lula, being the main driving force in these disputes. He is the one who is stirring up feelings against people from the countryside, rural producers, the interior of Brazil.

It’s not CPI to attack the government. Vice-president Geraldo Alckmin himself said this week, at a luncheon of the Agricultural Parliamentary Front, when asked about property invasions, he replied: “Invaders have to be cleared, it is a crime and, as such, have to be treated.” If the government maintains this understanding against the invasions and against the crimes committed, this CPI does not affect the government. What could be achieved is if, in the course of the CPI, the government starts to position itself as a defender of the MST and a defender of invasions.

Former President Bolsonaro, his family members and his former advisers are the targets of several investigations. As mr. Do you see the investigations conducted by Minister Alexandre de Moraes, of the STF?
There is a clear persecution against Bolsonaro and against Bolsonarists since the election and after it. The subjects that were brought up recently, when analyzed with transparency and in detail, have shown a very different reality than some narratives that were, at first, placed in the press.

I think there is, yes, an excessively critical treatment against the [ex-]president, against bolsonaristas. I am not against investigations. I just think that the way they are being made and the way they are being treated clearly denotes a persecution of these groups.

The President of the PL, Valdemar da Costa Neto, said this week that he considers it impossible for former President Bolsonaro to remain ineligible. What did mr. he thinks?
After the cancellation of [deputado Deltan] Dallagnol, nothing surprising. But the decision on Bolsonaro’s eventual ineligibility would be absolutely inappropriate and unfair, in my view. I won’t say it’s impossible, because this decision by Dallagnol showed that even the absurd is possible.

Mr. intends to run for mayor of São Paulo. Is his name already agreed within the PL?
This name is consolidated with President Bolsonaro, with Bolsonarists and with a part of the state and federal deputies who were already from the PL. Now, there is a portion of the PL that has participated in the administration of São Paulo for some time, in the current city hall, and that wants to continue preserving its spaces. And therefore these people want to support the current mayor [Ricardo Nunes]but they are a minority.

It is very difficult for you to explain to the voting public of the PL, which formed the largest group in the Chamber, the largest electoral fund, the largest amount of television time, that the party would behave like a legend for hire to support a poorly evaluated and unknown mayor . But this is a partisan decision.

Who mr. Do you consider who will be your main opponent?
The big opponent is Boulos, because he represents the antithesis of everything I believe in and vice versa. Everything that Boulos represents I am against and everything that I represent he is probably against. He effectively comes from previous campaigns that gave him some visibility and is a strong candidate. But I think that Boulos’ ceiling is also very low, because of the radicalism of the movement he coordinates in the invasion of property, which plunders public and private property and frightens São Paulo society. It goes up to a certain percentage, which is what it already has, but from then on I don’t think it will grow.

Mr. Do you hope to count on Bolsonaro’s support and active participation in the campaign?
No doubt, no doubt.

X-RAY

Ricardo Salles, 47
He was born in sao paulo. He is a lawyer graduated from Mackenzie University. He was Minister of the Environment (2019-2021) and State Secretary for the Environment in SP (2016-2017). Before, he was private secretary to the then governor Geraldo Alckmin, current vice president of the Republic.