Gleisi: PT does not have to give up more space in Lula’s government – 02/10/2023 – Power

The national president of the PT, deputy Gleisi Hoffmann, rejects the hypothesis of reducing the number of ministries occupied by the party in order to accommodate new allies to the base of president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.

“I don’t see how the PT can give up more space in the government to contemplate other forces”, he says in an interview with Sheet.

Gleisi, who participated in the negotiations for the formation of Lula’s ministry, defends adjustments in the agreement with the União Brasil — an acronym that received three portfolios and still declares itself independent in relation to the government.

“We have to do a bit of housekeeping, because, even being contemplated as it was, it is a party that is not making delivery”, affirms the petista.

For the PT president, it is natural that the government imposes an ideological filter for nominations, discarding nominees who aligned themselves with former president Jair Bolsonaro (PL). “If we win, we have a clear political position against Bolsonarism.”

One of Lula’s main collaborators, she advocates that he run for re-election in 2026.

Lula and the PT have harshly criticized the president of the Central Bank, Roberto Campos Neto. This stance has been the target of contestation within the governing base itself. Doesn’t this go against Lula’s pacification speech in the campaign? The posture that the president is taking is the same as he had during the campaign. He promised pacification, but he did not promise to deliver the country to economic setbacks and unemployment. He promised growth and jobs, he promised robust social policies, he promised investment. All he’s talking about is the program that was victorious.

President Lula contemplated PSD, União Brasil and MDB with three ministries each. But even today it is said that the base is not stable. How big is the base today? You don’t form the foundation overnight. The government is making a huge effort to gather forces in Congress. This does not mean that 100% will agree with the government, and that, in all projects, [os partidos] will vote together. There will always be disagreements, but I think that what matters is this effort.

Did these parties, MDB, PSD and União Brasil, have much space in the government? Regarding MDB and PSD, no. These are parties that, in a way, were already accompanying us in the campaign, even if divided. In these benches, in the polls, the majority have voted with the government, both PSD and MDB.

In relation to the União Brasil, I think we have to put a brake on things, because, even being contemplated as it was, it is a party that is not delivering. It is a party that has difficulties due to its internal composition and the distance it has always had from us. In the electoral process, totally distant and historically too.

What would be this tidying up brake for União Brasil? You have to call and talk because, if you’re not delivering, you don’t have to stay where you are. This is my assessment of PT. I am not speaking for the government.

Would one option be to exchange nominations within the space of União Brasil? Can. no one is immovable [risos].

Is the PT willing to open more space on the Esplanade to give ministries to other acronyms? The PT opened up a lot of space, it was very generous already in the composition [do governo]. It has ten ministries, which is justified because it is the party of the President of the Republic. So the ministries surrounding the president are party ministries. I don’t see how the PT can give more space in the government to contemplate other forces.

How then to attract parties like PP and Republicans Not Yet on the Base and should ask ministries? It’s not just top-level positions that attract. It is not just participation in the public machine that attracts. I think there are projects that are important, that parliamentarians want to take to their states. It has resources that are also important for political representation. There is a set of actions that, when put into practice, can hit the base of the government.

Bolsonaro, for example, made almost no political participation of the parties in government. Obviously he managed by secret budget [emendas de relator], is also not the case, but it formed the basis like that. But it’s not just participation in office.

But parties that already make up the government complain about the PT’s influence on the choices of secretaries in ministries, for example. In the case of executive secretaries, all parties had autonomy. So much so that the first release for nomination was for executive secretary and chief of staff. No one got involved in anyone’s executive secretary, unless someone appointed a Bolsonarist secretary. Then we got involved, because there is no justification. Replacement. Get another one.

Is this not an ideological filter within the government? Of course it is ideological. If we win, we have a clear political position against Bolsonarism, disputing it in the polls and we win. It is an ideological filter, yes. The government has a position. It’s not a jelly. In the other secretariats, and this also happens with ministries of the PT, it is by composition.

The centrão wants positions in state-owned companies, such as Codevasf and Dnocs. Does the PT want to make these nominations or do you think it’s better to leave this space to try to expand the allied base? It is up to the parties that are in the ministries to make the nomination and we try to compose with other parties. We’re not going to fight about it. But in the composition of the boards, we can do something more diversified to balance.

Mrs. Do you think that PP and Republicans, who were associated with Bolsonarism, should be invited to enter the government? They were already invited to support us as a base in Congress. I don’t think they necessarily have to enter or compose the government. It could be up front depending on how they behave in the polls, how they are going to be with the government, it’s possible. But I don’t think that’s the case now.

The Republicans, by the way, had the support of the government to elect a person [deputado Jhonatan de Jesus] to spend 30 years at TCU [Tribunal de Contas da União]. This is worth more than any ministry. It could already be firmly on the base, but I think it will at least be there in the Chamber.

Lula admitted the possibility of running for re-election if the country is in a delicate situation. In his opinion, should he compete regardless of the scenario? I always spoke to the president when he said he wasn’t going to be a candidate for re-election, that he shouldn’t say that, he shouldn’t deal with that. First, because I think he can and should be a candidate for re-election because of his trajectory, because of what he represents and because of who he is. I am very happy that he has adopted the position of the possibility of running as a candidate.

There was an expectation that Mrs. became a minister, with Minister Márcio Macedo chosen for the presidency of the PT. Wasn’t it frustrating to be left out of this ministerial composition? People had this expectation, people read this. For me, it wasn’t. The PT is very important at the base of this government because of the role it plays. So having a firm position on the part of the party in relation to what has led us here is fundamental.

In your opinion, what should be the PT’s role in Lula’s third term? Position it to the left? It is the main party of the president’s support base. It is to defend President Lula and the project that led us to victory. It is a project to generate jobs, care for the poorest people, the state investing in robust social problems.

Has Congress seen Lula 3 as more left-wing and less pragmatic than in previous terms? If yes, why? President Lula is holding very good positions, he is being very good in leading the government, firm. Very loyal to campaign commitments.

What in your assessment is non-negotiable? Economic growth and job creation are non-negotiable.

In its 43 years, the PT has seen its leader arrested and a president impeached. What is the party learning? The PT is the great party in Brazil and there is no arrogance about it. It is the great party in the sense of its organization, its relationship with society and its presence throughout the national territory. We have directories in over 3,000 Brazilian municipalities, we have party life. We have a very strong relationship with the social movement, with unions with the social base. And that is what gives resilience and resistance to the party. No other party would have faced what we faced during these years and come out alive and come back onto the political scene with victory.

O last year’s election result it was pretty tight. One of Bolsonaro’s campaign strategies was to associate Lula with corruption. Is this still a party flank? Regarding the result, we also believe that it was tight, it was the most difficult election we have ever contested. And, if there weren’t Lula, we wouldn’t win. But that happened because we played against the machine.

It is the first time that a President of the Republic has not been re-elected in Brazilian democratic history. There were about R$ 300 billion in aid, credits, tax exemption, amendments. Obviously, this issue of corruption still weighed heavily. That’s what we’ve struggled with lately, we’ve had to face and resist. So, winning the lawsuits, resisting arrest, carrying out this political struggle was very important.

And his legacy. We learned a lot during this whole period, including not making mistakes. Making alliances doesn’t mean being wrong. Making alliances is knowing that you have a result to achieve, there is an alliance to be made, but that the one who is allied with you at that moment may not necessarily be ahead. So we know that it has to have its own strength.

Mrs. Does it refer to the MDB? And that. And it’s going to be in the alliance again and we want it to be for a long time. And that we can really focus in this broader alliance on the issue of democracy, of due process of law, that’s what we’re talking about.

Does the Lula government have to announce stronger measures to prevent corruption? All anti-corruption measures are healthy, necessary and welcome. Moreover, in our governments there was a lot of corruption. There was a lot of transparency.

What we question is the use of the Brazilian justice system for political persecution, because that’s what happened. There was nothing proven of corruption against Lula. Lula was imprisoned for 580 days. Defending the democratic rule of law is fundamental, but this has nothing to do with not fighting corruption. The president has said this every time and has made it clear that he will not condone corruption.

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X-RAY | Gleisi Hoffmann, 57 years old

He is the national president of the PT. Born in Curitiba, she graduated in law from the Faculty of Law of Curitiba. She was state secretary in Mato Grosso do Sul. She was elected senator in 2010 and deputy in 2018. From 2011 to 2014, she was chief minister of the Civil House (Dilma government). She is the national president of the PT and a federal deputy.