Zeina Latif: ‘We deal with poorly prepared labor’ – 04/07/2024 – Market

Zeina Latif does not want to convey an image of ingratitude. She says she was happy as a manager in the financial market, but the time came when the short or very short term investment portfolio did not satisfy her. She wanted more.

One of the few women in senior positions in finance, she left XP, where she was chief economist, in 2020. She was Secretary of Economic Development for the state of São Paulo for six months in 2022 until she became managing partner of Gibraltar Consulting.

This is where she tries to find a consensus between economics, social demands and, above all, education in a world that, she herself agrees, is increasingly complicated.

“Today we deal with a society with an ill-prepared and unhappy workforce. Often, young people who go to school do not see the return on that time invested, and this affects productivity, labor and citizenship,” he said she the Sheet before a lecture on the economic scenario and the impact on education, at the inauguration, in March, of Lúcia Teixeira as president of Semesp, an entity that represents higher education institutions in Brazil.

For the doctor in economics from USP (University of São Paulo), the biggest threat to Brazil’s growth is a split that causes a climate of widespread distrust. Something that can reach the “point of no return”, as she defines it. Especially in how poor and rich see each other.

In 2022, Ms. published the book “We of Brazil: Our Heritage and Our Choices”, which talks about historical issues and how they relate to the history of national underdevelopment. Has the country changed since then?
From what I wrote, I reaffirm the conviction of seeing a country that is gradually maturing. The slow pace is worrying. We have very worrying situations in terms of education, social indicators, the environment, and violence.

Economists’ concern is that we are moving too slowly in these advances, and this creates points of no return.

A point of maturity is to have competition in politics. We may or may not like one side or be disappointed with one politician or another, but the fact is that today we have a country with societal views that are reflected in politics.

But isn’t there also a climate of disappointment regarding economic growth?
Since the 2013 protests, we have a society that has become more demanding. That phenomenon of the new middle class is a group that is frustrated. The promised dream was not delivered.

We had a very serious recession in the country. There has not yet been a return to pre-recession levels. For example, in consumer goods, we did not return to pre-crisis levels, as the new middle class was on a growth ramp.

At the same time, this is a more vibrant society. I would be worried about having an economic situation like this in an apathetic society.

Is it more difficult to fit an economic policy into a polarized society with opposing desires?
Most rich countries are democratic. What we need to do is reinforce communication channels. And here I go beyond the economy. The more we have a system that can translate these desires of different groups into the public agenda, the more mature the country will be.

Nowadays I don’t see politicians disconnected from society. The serious recession from 2014 to 2016 was the result of a disconnection between the political class and the country’s economic problems. There were many economic policy errors despite the warnings.

Mrs. Do you notice dissatisfaction with the direction of recent years?
There is to be dissatisfaction because we are talking about a country that, on the one hand, has some economic growth, on the other, it grows very unequally. This reinforces the need to accelerate State reform.

We fail miserably in the issue of equal opportunities. We have created a divide in society, and the aspect that concerns me most is the feeling of poor versus rich.

The distrust of the most popular classes towards the elite is worrying. Nobody trusts the government, the poor don’t trust the rich, who don’t trust institutions. This is a big problem, it is a failure of the State to provide quality public services in an accessible way.

Therefore, we need to accelerate reforms to have fairer state action.

That’s why Mrs. wrote that the original sin was neglecting education?
Oh, it was. Historically, our elite has not valued education. This is due to the way the country was born as a nation and that it had such long slavery.

There was no interest from the rural landowner because they didn’t want to lose this workforce, the racist view that it was not necessary to take care of black people after they were freed.

The next day [ao fim da escravidão], no one remembered that there was a society to be taken care of. Does the United States have racism? They have racism, but the country took care of the education of the freed people.

It’s one thing to universalize education, it’s another to achieve quality education. Quality teaching is not just about providing resources. You have a management issue, you have to face unions, you need to have much greater institutional sophistication.

In practice, we still haven’t managed to universalize it, right? If this is the best way to rise, if it is the best way to distribute income, we have failed a lot.

Today we deal with a society with an ill-prepared and unhappy workforce. Often, young people who go to school do not see a return on that time invested, and this affects productivity, labor and citizenship.

If society does not have access to quality education, it falls into populist discourses and is unable to have a critical vision.

That’s why Mrs. said that, despite being considered an emerging country, Brazil, in practice, is not?
Brazil is an emerging country. But, in relation to the group of other so-called emerging, we have a much worse performance. We are emerging towards middle income. But in that idea of ​​an emerging country that exhibits high growth rates, of capital accumulation, we are not. We do not perform as expected from an emerging country.

Mrs. is a success story, but there is research from last year by Fesa Group showing that only 17% of leadership positions in the financial market are occupied by women.

The financial market is a separate chapter. Only 27% of chairs in economics faculties are held by women. Then, when you go to graduate school, it becomes a funnel. There are fewer women doing master’s and doctorate degrees.

The fact that women are less present in careers linked to exact sciences affects female participation in the financial market. It has improved a lot, but there is a barrier.

We need to understand why women seek out these courses less. And it’s not just something from Brazil. There’s something there that’s hindering women, and I can’t say if it’s cultural or if we don’t give the right incentives to girls when they’re young. But it is clear that participation has grown, and this creates a favorable dynamic for women.

When you are in a male environment, it can be difficult to distinguish what is machismo, what is prejudice, what is strangeness in the environment. I went through some situations that were clearly sexist. But I went through others where there was a strange feeling about the woman’s presence.

Mrs. Are you referring to comments you heard?
Comments, attitudes, not being called to meetings. I went through all of this.

Do women also have a different view of things in the financial market?
In general, we have a broader way of seeing problems. Men tend to focus on a certain subject. Women can have a broader, richer look in this aspect.

In the Covid-19 pandemic, countries led by women fared better, I think this is a feminine characteristic, of looking at the problem from different aspects.

This has improved and goes beyond the female presence. It also applies to different ethnicities and sexual orientations. Ultimately, we are talking about a much more complex world.

It’s no longer “business as usual”. Every hour there is a new topic that appears regarding health, geopolitics and a much more complex society. Having diversity in its various aspects is empowering.

But at the same time, building a consensus in this scenario is much more difficult?
A lot more. Building consensus with the different group takes more work. But it’s still the best way to deal with this more complex world because, when faced with a problem, there are different perspectives on the same issue.

Every hour is something new that companies have to adapt to. It is necessary to monitor what happens on social networks, monitor the work environment… There are many variables. Even though it’s more work, it’s the best way.

Economists may have a much more financier, “business as usual” view of the world. Mrs. has a slightly different perspective, more focused on the social side of the economy. Is it a little difficult to reconcile your vision with that of the business world, which is more pragmatic?
The financial market is very focused on the short term. It is an extremely competitive environment. It’s no longer my daily routine because I work as a consultant. But it’s a place with a very high level of anxiety because you don’t have a crystal ball, but you need to build scenarios all the time.

If you make a mistake and your competitor gets it right… It’s a hard life there, understand? If you get a scenario wrong and because of that the income from that financial investment frustrates the customer, you will lose him.

Everyone wants to look at their portfolio at the end of the day and say: “Wow, that was a good investment.” And forget the rest.

The financial market is there analyzing the issues that will impact investments. It’s not discussing racism, it’s not discussing identity issues. It’s not because it doesn’t work.

You have a mission, which is to make that investment portfolio pay off, you have to give good advice. And, since no one has a crystal ball, it’s not an easy environment. For me, it was a cycle that completed, I went looking for other things.

For banks, too?
Financial institutions, looking in general, are increasingly looking at other topics. For example, portfolios related to sustainable projects.

There is a topic that is increasingly common to central banks today: how climate factors can generate shocks in the economy. For the economy, the world is increasingly complicated. Sometimes, we expect too much in the financial market.

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Zeina Latif, 56
Born in Campinas (SP), she is an economist graduated from USP (University of São Paulo). She is currently a director at Gibraltar Consulting. She was a professor and researcher before entering the financial market in 2000. She held the position of chief economist at different banks. The last of them was XP Investimentos. She was Secretary of Economic Development for the state of São Paulo in 2022. She is the author of the book “We of Brazil: Our Heritages and Our Choices”, released by Record