Part of the prisoners went to Brasilia out of curiosity, says defender

Federal public defender Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro has been making efforts in recent months to better understand what happened at Praça dos Três Poderes on January 8, when hundreds of protesters vandalized the headquarters of Congress, the Planalto Palace and the Federal Supreme Court. (STF). He acts in the defense of about 400 of these people before the STF. This Wednesday (19), when new images revealed that military personnel from the Institutional Security Office (GSI), the body responsible for the security of the Presidency, were circulating among the invaders at the time when several were vandalizing the headquarters of the Executive, he vented on Twitter.

“The least I hope, honestly, is that, at the end of the investigations and processes regarding the acts of 01/08, only the boy who was a hat maker at a HQ and the teacher from the interior are not condemned, if you know what I mean” , posted on the social network.

In an interview with People’s Gazette this Friday (20), the defender considers that the recordings impose the deepening of investigations, although he does not consider that the situation of the people he defends will change much.

“Of course, the investigations have to go deeper into what happened, what was shown. I don’t know if it changes the situation of the people I defend. Honestly, I don’t have that expectation,” he says. “The other defendants, the other authorities, I don’t know.”

Ribeiro considers that the accusations against the majority of the demonstrators are exaggerated. For him, many people who were arrested inside the buildings were there out of curiosity and did not destroy anything, nor did they have the intention of carrying out a coup d’état, as they are accused. In their testimonies, they said that the security guards who were there advised them to protect themselves, and they did not have the knowledge to know if they were from the police, the GSI or the Army.

“Most people are quite simple and wouldn’t know how to say that. They only said that they were instructed to stay in a certain place so as not to be trampled or injured in the running and pushing, that’s right, but without indicating who said it”, says Ribeiro.

This week, the STF began analyzing the complaints against one hundred of the demonstrators, presented by the Attorney General’s Office (PGR). The Federal Public Defender’s Office (DPU), a free legal assistance body headed by Ribeiro, defended 66 of them.

A majority has already been formed so that 50 people, who were camped in front of the Army Headquarters the next day, respond for criminal association and incitement by the Armed Forces against constitutional powers. Another 50 will have to answer for more serious crimes, such as a coup d’état, attempted abolition of the democratic rule of law and depredation of public property – in their case, sentences can exceed 20 years in prison. In their defense, the DPU mainly claimed that the complaints were generic, without individualizing the conduct of each one, a requirement of the Code of Criminal Procedure.

The denouncements, in fact, contain a standard text for each group of protesters – in the pieces, only the name and address of each one changes. The vote of the rapporteur, Alexandre de Moraes, is also practically the same for all, in favor of becoming defendants.

Ribeiro now wants that, during the criminal process, where witnesses can be heard and new evidence can be gathered, there is greater individualization of conduct, and that it is demonstrated that “there are situations and situations”. “Of course there are people who have been filmed breaking things, spoiling the heritage. But there were people who went to Praça dos Três Poderes, kind of out of curiosity, to see and meet people who had never been to Brasília”.

In this interview, he also says that the CPMI to be installed in Congress on January 8 could bring new revelations, although he recognizes that, like other recent ones, it could serve a lot for the political dispute between government and opposition parliamentarians.

Read the full interview

Should the disclosure of these images lead to a broadening of the investigation to include federal or military officials?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: Things are still tentative. We just saw this thing. Now, of course, investigations have to delve deeper into what happened, what was shown. I don’t know if it changes the situation of the people I defend. Honestly, I don’t have that expectation. In any case, it is necessary to know in more detail. Even though I find it difficult to change [a situação dos manifestantes]you need to know what happened, even to see how things developed on the day.

Should General Gonçalves Dias be included in the inquiry that investigates the omission of the authorities?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: Oh, I don’t know. That’s something I can’t say. Because the situation needs to be further investigated. I can’t say yes or no. What I know is what anyone has seen on television, I have nothing more to say.

Defenders participated in the depositions of those involved in the custody hearing. Did the protesters say that there were people from the GSI inside helping?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: No nobody. The people assisted by the Public Defender’s Office, most of them would not even know how to indicate what the GSI is. They did not indicate GSI or any name. They said that many people from the security area told them like this: ‘look, take cover over there on that ramp, so they don’t step on you’, [quando] sometimes it was an elderly lady.

But indicating, saying that it was the PM, the GSI or the Army, no. This, as a rule, they did not do. Most people are pretty straightforward and wouldn’t know how to tell. They only said that they were instructed to stay in a certain place so as not to be trampled, or injured in the running and pushing, that’s for sure, but without indicating who said it.

The information that several of them gave us is that they entered one of the buildings, in a small room inside, for example, to protect themselves, not to damage anything, especially the elderly or women. And they were guided by people who were there, but without knowing by whom.

There is already a majority in the Supreme to open criminal cases against 50 campers and 50 invaders. Mr. Do you think that, in the course of the criminal action, they can reveal more details, including the possible connivance of people from the federal government, from the GSI, especially now with the revelation of these images?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: Other defendants, other authorities, I don’t know. Because I had no contact with any of them. But most people assisted by the Ombudsman’s Office do not have this information, they are simple people from the countryside. They came, sometimes, because they got a free ticket, or because the church group came. People assisted by the Ombudsman do not have this information. Now, in the course of the process, in hearing people, new information may be revealed, but not from the Public Defender’s Office.

Mr. says that most of the people arrested in Praça dos Três Poderes were simple. Do you consider that the charges against them, for attempted coup and abolition of the democratic rule of law, which can lead to more than 20 years in prison, are very heavy? Should ministers better consider this in the final judgment?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: That’s what I hope, because there are situations and situations. Of course there are people who have been filmed breaking things, spoiling the heritage. But there were people who went to Praça dos Três Poderes, kind of out of curiosity, to see and meet people who had never been to Brasília.

Of course, I think the denouncements will be received, not only the ones that have already been, but also the next ones. And they are really very similar, the two groups of complaints, against the people who stayed at the Army HQ and the others who went to Praça dos Três Poderes.

These people who were part of a group and are very close. But there are different situations. I hope there is a minimum of individualization.

Because there were people who actually went to Praça dos Três Poderes and said: ‘look, I arrived and when I found out, everything was already broken’. And they went out of curiosity, or with groups and absolutely did not perform any act. So, I hope that this individualization is done. I don’t know how it will work out in practice, but it would be important. Because there are people in different situations.

Most justices accepted the thesis of the Attorney General’s Office that in multitudinous crimes, committed by a multitude, it is not necessary to individualize each conduct, at least at this stage of receiving the complaint. Mr. Do you think that in the process this will become necessary for an eventual conviction, in the final judgment?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: I think so, and I hope, as a defender, that there is this separation. Even though the person went there to see what happened, and I heard people saying that, who arrived in Brasilia even after the acts, at the end of the day, and went there out of curiosity, I hope they will be treated differently. Even if condemned, that has the recognition of this different situation. Let’s hope so, because it’s not an easy thing to prove. Although the crime is multitudinous, and it is difficult to separate it at the denunciation stage, I hope that this will be possible in the instruction. Because there are very different situations, really.

Many people arrested in Praça dos Três Poderes say that there were infiltrators, who went to the act on purpose to vandalize and blame peaceful demonstrators, criminalizing the demonstration. Right-wing lawmakers now want the CPMI to investigate this further. Mr. Do you think this really happened?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: Among the people we assisted, I don’t think there were infiltrators. But if, eventually, someone did that and left, I can’t say.

During the instruction of the process, can the social networks of these people be analyzed better to know with what intention they went to the act? The profiles can help individualize the conducts.

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: I think it will end up happening. It will be used, because there were people who filmed themselves in public buildings and it will be used. Maybe even phone location.

The government has already accepted the opening of the CPMI. Mr. Do you think it will bring concrete results to the investigations or will it become a stage for political warfare, as has happened a lot in the last CPIs?

Gustavo de Almeida Ribeiro: CPI always has this, this aspect of political discussion. Now, of course, it is possible that there are documents, videos revealed that we are still unaware of. We don’t know for sure, but of course you have to be aware, because someone may show up with a video that you don’t know, with a recording that you don’t know and that interferes. This has already happened in several other CPIs, which revealed something that was not expected, sometimes even because of fights between politicians, someone can say something more than expected. And if information appears that may be of interest to the defense, we will be attentive.