Moro: Lula government is creating conditions for corruption – 03/01/2023 – Power

Former Lava Jato judge and former Minister of Justice, Senator Sergio Moro (União Brasil-PR) told the Sheet that the government of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) creates conditions for new cases of corruption.

“The government wants to relax the State-owned Law, which was a breakthrough in 2016, a reaction to that exacerbated allotment that was found in Lava Jato”, he said.

In the election campaign, Moro got back together with former president Jair Bolsonaro (PL) – whom in 2020 he accused of trying to interfere with the Federal Police. Now, the former minister tries to avoid ties with Bolsonarism.

“I have no close relationship. I joined [a ele] there in the campaign, as a very punctual performance. I did not return to be part of Bolsonaro’s political group “, he declared. The now senator advised the then presidential candidate in debates in the second round.

In the interview, Moro also came out in defense of Judge Marcelo Bretas, responsible for Operation Lava Jato in Rio de Janeiro, who this Tuesday (28) was removed from office by the CNJ (National Council of Justice).

What are the plans of Mr. in politics? Do you intend to run for the government of Paraná or for the Presidency? This is very speculative. The focus is on the Senate mandate. I have a historic flag that is the fight against corruption. Corruption makes the public sector inefficient and, in addition, ends up weakening democracy. So, it is much more than a site, much more than a triplex, much more than deviations from Petrobras. Corruption is a central problem of modern democracies and it needs to have voices in Parliament that defend guidelines to combat it. For example, returning from prison in the second instance.

Mr. asked to unarchive the prison project in second instance. When is the Senate supposed to discuss this? This project was important because it had already been approved by the CCJ [Comissão de Constituição e Justiça] and then it was archived. Rather than starting from scratch, we prefer to unarchive. Now I think I have to wait for the best political moment and analyze the scenario. There are serious cases of injustice, of people who have been convicted of sometimes even violent crimes, and who end up not being punished because the processes do not come to an end.

What would be the best political moment? In some government corruption crisis, for example? These corruption crises, apparently, are predictable, right? Because this government is doing the same thing it did in the past, which is a complete allotment of public positions, with an increase in the bureaucratic structure. So these cases, unfortunately, and with the relaxation of controls, should arise in the coming years. But, in fact, the appropriate political moment is when we understand that peer convincing [senadores] was hit.

Mr. Do you believe that cases of corruption will arise in this government? It’s a question of conditions. Are the conditions present or absent? For example, the government wants to relax the State-owned Law, which was a 2016 advance, a reaction to that exacerbated allotment that was found in Lava Jato. Now the government is making a contrary move, because it wants to distribute positions in state-owned companies to gain political support. This often ends up neglecting the technical aspect. So you generate the conditions for the cases of corruption to return.

One state-owned company that has allegations of corruption, including in the Bolsonaro government, is Codevasf, which should remain under the command of nominees from its party, União Brasil. What is your assessment of the participation of the acronym? I am against the political allotment of public offices. Of course you have to have a core of political offices. For example, the minister. But the more technical profile, the better. When I was Minister of Justice, in relation to the Federal Police and the Federal Highway Police, I advised that the indications of all superintendencies had to be technical.

Now, what we see in the news is that the delay in appointing the Highway Police superintendents stems from these political arrangements. I don’t know if it’s true, but starting to allocate the positions of superintendents of police agencies is a model that doesn’t work.

Mr. Do you believe there will be interference by the PF in this government? To answer that would be speculative.

And in the Bolsonaro government? I left the government because of that.

And after Mr. he left? I didn’t have a precise follow-up on this, but when I left the government, I made the reasons for my disagreement very clear. I actually supported Bolsonaro in the second round [da eleição] because of the opposition to Lula. At no point did I retract what I said.

Mr. Do you consider yourself a Bolsonarist? I don’t label people, just like I don’t label myself. I was a candidate in Paraná who did not have the support of either Lula or Bolsonaro. I was the third way in Paraná and I have my own flags. So I don’t define myself in relation to Lula or Bolsonaro.

Mr. Do you believe that the third way will become viable in the coming years? I don’t know if third way is the best expression, but I think that Brazil cannot be simplified between two teams: Bolsonaro and Lula. I think that there is a group, not only of citizens, but of politicians, who want to see the country prosper, but without these labels.

But what is your relationship today with Bolsonaro and with his core people? I have no close relationship. I joined the campaign there, as a very punctual performance. I did not return to be part of Bolsonaro’s political group.

Paraná’s PL tries to revoke his mandate. How is the relationship with the former president’s allies? This is a reckless move, which was proposed by two sore losers. We are absolutely sure of the correctness of what was done in our election campaign. I regret this initiative, but the relationship with the PL bench in the Senate transcends this divergence.

Bolsonaro allies argue that the former president returns to Brazil and coordinates the opposition. Mr. do you agree?This is his decision. I do my opposition independently. We have a group here that is willing to oppose this government and I believe that this group will grow.

União Brasil and PP negotiate a federation. If that happens, Mr. still in the party? We have to wait for the unfolding of these facts. In União Brasil today there is a good number of parliamentarians and affiliates who do not feel represented by the Lula government and want to form an opposition. And this position has been respected by the top of the party.

What did mr. Do you think it will happen with Lava Jato? Is there a risk of new defeats? We need to recreate the conditions in the legislation to combat corruption. I also defend the end of the privileged forum, the autonomy of the control bodies. Without this, it is very difficult to resume the fight against corruption, whether in Curitiba or anywhere else.

The CNJ judges this Tuesday the judge Marcelo Bretas [a decisão de afastamento do juiz ocorreu após a entrevista]. In your opinion, is there a risk of him being punished? He did a good job in Rio de Janeiro, he dismantled the empire of corruption in [ex-governador] Sergio Cabral. As a result, many interests are opposed. From what I’ve seen, I haven’t found anything solid that justifies the judge’s removal. I think the facts have to be ascertained, but the removal seems to me to be an exaggerated measure.

There is differences from the case of Brettas with the contacts that Mr. had with attorneys? My contacts with prosecutors are not illicit. Never had any of that. We fought corruption. We took risks. We put powerful people in jail. And we want to resume this fight. So I’m very proud of the work that was done in Operation Lava Jato. I have nothing to regret or regret.

The leader of the government in the Senate, Jaques Wagner, says that the Lava Jato’s brainwashing culminated in the resistance of the Armed Forces the squid. Mr. see this relationship? No. What exists is that the military traditionally has a negative view of corruption. And, on the other hand, what existed in the PT governments are several corruption scandals, such as the monthly allowance and the petrolão, which until today no one has made a mea culpa within the PT government. Or was there no corruption in the PT government? Or was Petrobras not stolen, not looted? Those are the points they have to worry about.

What should be done with regard to those arrested for the January 8 coup acts? Minister Alexandre [de Moraes, do STF] decided difficult issues in extreme situations. After that emergency moment, I think responsibilities have to be individualized. So, who invaded and depredated is a situation. Whoever spoke up is a completely different situation. So it is important that the responsibilities, yes, are determined, but that the due differentiation is made.

Mr. Do you think these cases should be judged by the STF or in the first instance? It is a matter for the Supreme Court.

What about the involvement of former President Bolsonaro? What would have been the participation? from him? This assessment is not for me.

Mr. says he does not want the fight against corruption to be his only flag and has been involved with agribusiness agendas. Mr. see yourself as a member of the bench ruralist? Brazil has economic problems, but if there is a sector that is competitive, including internationally, it is agribusiness. We have to value this part of our economy. Currently, the main concern is linked to the misguided speech of the federal government. Farmers were called fascists by the president. I don’t feel like I’m a representative of agriculture per se, but I will defend the interests of agriculture because they coincide with the interests of the country.

Sergio Moro, 50

Now affiliated with União Brasil, he was a judge in Operation Lava Jato and convicted Lula in the first instance in the process that later took the now president to prison. He gave up the judiciary to be Minister of Justice and Public Security in the Bolsonaro government and left the portfolio after 16 months. He tried to make himself viable as a candidate for the Presidency of the Republic in the 2022 election, but ended up elected to the Senate by Paraná.