Possible review does not compromise FGTS, says Luiz Marinho – 04/30/2023 – Market

Calculations by the Ministry of Labor indicate that a possible change in the remuneration rule of the FGTS (Fundo de Garantia do Tempo de Serviço) by decision of the Federal Supreme Court (STF) will not affect the fund’s investment capacity in popular housing or sanitation.

In an interview with Sheetthe Minister of Labor, Luiz Marinho, says that, if the plenary of the court follows the vote of the rapporteur, Minister Luís Roberto Barroso, the decision will not have an impact on the financial balance of the FGTS.

Barroso argues that the FGTS has at least the remuneration of savings —which currently pays 6.17% per year plus TR (see simulations here)— without releasing retroactive values. Today, the fund yields 3% per year plus TR (Referential Rate), which has been close to zero.

“There was a law change in 2016 [na verdade, a alteração foi em 2017], which established the distribution of earnings over shareholders’ equity. Ready. Since then, there has been a growth in returns and it is already above the savings rule”, says Marinho.

The minister criticizes the president of the Central Bank, Roberto Campos Neto, calling him a “goal tie” in the economy. Marinho suggests that the Senate put pressure on him on the issue of interest rates. “Society has to put pressure on him, the Senate has to call him there and say: man, the same way we put you in, we can take you out.”

The STF is in the middle of judging the FGTS correction index. What impact can there be on social policies, investments in popular housing and sanitation?

We will comply with the decision that the Supreme Court takes, of course. From the funding point of view [fonte de recursos para investimento], it was better to keep it as it is in the rules, TR plus 3%. Had a law change in 2016 [na verdade, a alteração foi em 2017], which established the distribution of earnings over shareholders’ equity. Ready. Since then, there has been an increase in returns and it is already above the savings rule.

Evidently it has more catastrophic assessments, but a priori it does not compromise the fund.

The fund manager must have an “eagle eye” for investment projects, seeking to acquire the highest possible profitability of the fund, to make a profit, for the profit to be reinvested, in addition to remunerating the worker’s savings.

The vote [de Barroso, relator da ação] is in tune with that. At the other end, the fund has to distribute subsidy for low wages, for Minha Casa, Minha Vida. This year, the forecast is to release R$ 9.5 billion for Minha Casa, Minha Vida subsidies.

The debate we have with Caixa, when I speak of an “eagle look” in the projects, I am talking about FI-FGTS [fundo de investimento em infraestrutura do FGTS]. Caixa needs to be more daring in this process of looking at and capturing projects and making investments, making them circulate. But I haven’t sat down with Caixa to discuss it yet.

How is the discussion about ending the birthday withdrawal and using the FGTS as collateral for loans?

I can’t go ahead so I don’t get in the way. But it will be this semester

The STJ decided that any salary can be pledged to pay debts. With the high indebtedness of Brazilian families, could this not be a problem?

Who am I to argue with the Judiciary? The government has been making an effort with the Desenrola Program. President Lula has been insisting with the Treasury to arrange legal and accounting engineering, a system that will provide a tool that will help Brazilian men and women to adjust their accounts to solve the problem of indebtedness.

We need to reduce debt and at the same time solve the credit problem. Having credit as cheaply as possible to help the economy grow, despite the “goal tie” of the economy there, which is the Central Bank.

“Draw goal”?

The economy is eager to grow. And there is a citizen in goal [referindo-se ao presidente do Banco Central, Roberto Campos Neto] who put a net before the goal for the ball not to enter. Does that make sense? That guy [diz] ‘ah, that’s technical’. Technician where, Central Bank? It’s politics.

With uncontrolled inflation, the ones who lose the most are low incomes. Nobody argues. Now, when you use an inflation-fighting tool to restrict, restricting the economy, low-income people are most affected.

We are not experiencing a process of hyperinflation, quite the contrary. This is the time to create conditions. We are developing a policy to adjust people’s indebtedness problem, so that they can consume according to their needs. It’s not for the ox spree. It’s for the economy to work again, to generate jobs. Now there’s a guy there putting nails to puncture the tires. It does not give.

Society has to put pressure on him, the Senate has to call him there and say: “Man, the same way we put you in, we can take you out”. It is the Senate that is the authority, not Lula, not the government. The councilor can lose his mandate, deputy, mayor, governor, the president of the Republic. The Supreme Minister may lose. The president of the Central Bank too, because he is making a serious mistake.

The Senate is not assuming its responsibility. Everyone has control. He also has to have control over someone to evaluate it like this: is he complying with his rule of autonomy or is he not being autonomous at all? The Senate can do more. A process has already begun in which the Senate is beginning to play its role, he is being asked to go there and explain.

It was not possible to meet, at new minimum wage policy, at the request of the centers [que queriam um valor mais alto]?

It was not possible considering the situation we inherited in the country and in the economy. Disaster, tragedy. The possible is what we present.

If we compare 2023 with 2003, we managed, in the first Lula government, to make real gains in the third year of government. We are in a worse situation and making real gains in the first year. It is a huge effort on the part of the government. It does not mean that, in the future, we will not be able to talk about this delay charged by the exchanges.

Brazil is reaching records for workers rescued in conditions analogous to slavery. Was it lack of oversight in the previous government?

It was lack of oversight. He pressed for there not to be. There was resistance from the servers. This year we are going to reach 2,000 something, people are working.

Fines for these practices are low. From the point of view of punishment, is there anything to review?

There are several punishments pending in Congress, there is even confiscation of assets. It depends on Congress. We want to create a debate in society with awareness, especially in segments that work with exports, that this type of news is in the way. The wineries, for example, might not even know. But they are not without responsibility.

How is the debate on regulating delivery apps going?

We are aiming to work on this in the first half. There is a false debate about Temer’s reform. “Ah, the citizen is now an entrepreneur and does not want to have a bond”. Having a bicycle and a bag on your back, is that being an entrepreneur? Entrepreneur assumes that he regulates his price.

Here comes a platform and says: there is a remuneration of up to X. And with what journey? For six days of the week? And 16 hours a day? Oh, kidding. This can be compared to slave labor.

And when you talk about technological innovation, modern… What kind of modernity is this that will enslave a citizen? We want technological innovation to bring benefit to society, not harm. We’ve just been to Spain and the model is interesting. Colombia’s model, if approved, is better.

And will the platform provide transparency or will citizens continue to be governed by a machine? It has to open source code to give transparency. There’s no way a worker can work in the dark. He makes a journey, depending on demand, it’s worth one, it’s worth something else. And induces him to work himself to death to have a bonus he never gets.

How will the ministry conduct the revision of the labor reform?

There is a tripartite group working on the reform. I have been encouraging the centrals to talk bilaterally with businessmen. For the ministry, for the government, it is much better that they talk, understand each other and adjust the understandings. And then the government coordinates. Do you have an agreement? Forward to Congress.

This has to do with point reviews, I hope they talk about the tragedy of outsourcing to adjust. It’s not about outsourcing. It is necessary to have a minimal understanding of understanding so as not to lead to degrading work, to slave labor, as it is today.

What about union funding?

We start from the logic that it is necessary to have a strong, representative union. And for that you need to be financially able. What was done with the union was to dismantle it. You arrive in a country: is there a union? No, it doesn’t. So it’s not democratic, forget it, bullshit.

Based on the experience in Brazil, I believe that it would not be healthy to go back to talking about taxation, where you don’t have the right to complain to anyone, it’s deducted and that’s it. This I have said: do not come back.

What is plausible and based on my experience as a trade unionist is that the assembly is necessary and it decides on this contribution. And the workers will know how to set limits. You can even put in the law eventual ceilings for the eventuality of a union that is out of the loop, pickaxe, wanting to abuse. But the logic is that when you empower workers, they organize. There will be no abuse.

But is the contribution even valid for non-union members?

Clear. Does the non-union worker give up the raise? Do you waive the guarantee in case of illness? Do you give up the achievements of the collective contract? Why won’t he contribute absolutely nothing? It’s only fair that he contributes. Can he object? You can and should. In the assembly.

X-RAY:

Luiz Marino, 63
He was president of the ABC Metallurgists Union, the same position formerly held by Lula, and of the Central Única dos Trabalhadores. In Lula’s first administrations, he occupied the Ministries of Labor and Social Security. In 2022, he was elected federal deputy for the PT of São Paulo, having graduated to return to the position of Minister of Labor in Lula’s current management.